I asked my coworker politely if he could remove the bra descriptions and mock bra products from our base project template.
Without even a hint of concern, he asked, “Do you wear a bra?”
“That’s not a question appropriate for work,” I said.
“Do you wear a bra?” he persisted.
It’s not just that he asked it in the hearing range of 2/3 of our development team, consisting of all males except myself, and that all eyes and ears were tuned in to our conversation at this moment from the instant the “b” word was mentioned.
It’s also the fact that while we were team-coding a few weeks prior, he sat next to me and browsed the Target website’s bra section, knowing I could see the screen full of scantily clad women.
It’s also the fact that when I said, “Please make sure those products don’t end up in our base template,” he assured me they wouldn’t. He lied.
But this was only the tip of the iceberg. In my tenure as a computer programmer, I’ve been the recipient of the following remarks (and not all just at one company, and not all are listed here):
“We’re outsourcing your job to India. You should consider just staying at home with the kids. Motherhood is a wonderful thing.”
“She’s probably just got PMS.”
“Do you need me to accompany you to the bathroom? You know, you could be raped on your way there.”
“We should put porn on her computer while she’s getting coffee.”
“Woman, go to the kitchen and get me a snack.”
“You’re an HR risk.”
“No, you can’t come with us for lunch, that would be an HR liability.”
“How’s that sexy software coming along?”
In response to my question about who would be replacing the “back end” developer who had moved, on, “Oh, we have all the confidence in the world that you can service all the back end needs of the entire team by yourself.”
“What if I want to get my wife fake breasts?”
“Wow, you’re really fertile!”
In response to me saying that no woman would feel comfortable in the development atmosphere at a particular company, “Well, you were our experiment.”
These are overtly offensive comments. But guys, let’s face it. Sexism isn’t just about that unprofessional titter. It’s about the condescension and lack of respect we women experience in the field on a daily basis. I say “we” because it’s not just me. A female friend of mine, who was recently managing a team of developers, told one of them not to put business logic in a stored procedure. He went above her head to her boss, who told him to go ahead and put it in the stored procedure, “because that’s the way we’ve always done it”–as in, she’s just a girl, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. Or, when she tried to save the moment when her boss made a horribly insensitive remark about a segment of society, he rolled his eyes in front of everyone, dismissing her concern rudely, showing all those lower in the chain that she wasn’t respected. And then, during her first one on one meeting with the team members, an ex-marine came in the door with her resume printed up, and his printed up, and said that he was more qualified for her job than she was–apparently oblivious to the fact that if that had been true, he would have been hired for it and not she. While these examples may not shout “SEXISM!” as blatantly as the sexual comments, they occurred in a culture of bullying, which can be its own form of sexism.
When I’ve been at the brunt of this type of dismissive, arrogant lack of respect for women as computer scientists, I’ve suddenly felt that simply because I have a vagina, I’m seen as an “un-equal.” Do you forget, simply because I’m a woman, that yes, I have a brain, and that yes, I can code elegantly and efficiently? It’s so hard not to throw in “probably better than you” at the end of the last sentence. But this isn’t about competition. It’s about a lack of team work and respect in our field. I don’t care if I’m the worst coder you’ve ever met. Make your grudge about that, not about the fact that I’m a woman for pete’s sake.
Understand where I’m coming from–I’m not a feminazi or even a feminist, and I’m not advocating here or anywhere else that women should be “she-men” and men should be sensitive pansies. The blatant truth is that I’m a professional woman caught in one of the few sectors of the work force left that refuses to leave the 1950s behind. And I’m freaking sick of the sexism in our field. The “brogrammer” mentality is not only aggravating, men, but paramount to living in the stone age. How can you take pride in being a part of such a technologically advanced field, and yet allow this kind of outdated, absurd behavior toward women to rule the development environments you work in? You wouldn’t treat your wife or your sister or your mother like that, or allow them to be treated like that. Not only is it unprofessional, it’s beneath you.
You can do better.
So, what do I want? The answer is, I want a few things from you men and a few things from us women to get us beyond this bottleneck that prevents teamwork and productivity.
Men:
- Don’t say things to your buddies or to women developers that you wouldn’t say to your mother. (FYI, asking whether or not your coworker is wearing a bra is inappropriate. “Frenching the Hooker” is not an acceptable work IM status. In general, do not mention any part of the female body, particularly if it begins with “b,” and refrain from all 8th grade humor. Don’t mention strip clubs, your online porn habit, or what you did last night. Never mention PMS. Etc.)
- If you are in doubt about whether or not some comment you are about to make is inappropriate, DON’T SAY IT.
- Inquire about our thoughts regarding team policy, code policy, code strategy, etc., and take our answers seriously.
- Don’t be dismissive.
- Don’t treat us like “one of the guys.” Treat us as intellectual equals, and as ladies.
- Don’t say the “F” word. In fact, don’t swear–it’s just plain unprofessional.
- If another team member engages in sexism toward a female team mate, don’t stand for it. Be a man and stand up for her.
Women,
- Don’t dress suggestively. This will make anyone, including other women, cease to respect you.
- Don’t dress like men. We aren’t men. We are ladies. The minute you buy into the lie that we should be “like one of the guys,” all the boundaries become blurred, and it opens you up to being mistreated.
- Don’t take it. Realize that you are a human being worthy of respect, and that nothing should make you feel like less. Don’t make excuses. Then, gently educate whoever just insulted you or made you feel less: “John, what you just said made me feel like you see me as inferior.” Sometimes, a man really has no idea that what he said was sexist, and you have to be patient and point these things out. If it continues, take it to HR. But always, always stand up for yourself.
- If the management is sexist, leave the company. Management sets the tone for the rest of the organization. If it’s rotten at the top, it’s rotten to the core, right down to the cubicle next to you.
- Don’t work for a company that outsources its HR, or whose HR department is flimsy. On the flip side, don’t take every stupid thing a man says to HR. Use that recourse wisely. For instance, if you find yourself in tears, you’ve waited too long.
- Don’t hold grudges. Carrying the poison of the pain you’ve experienced as a result of sexist treatment from one job to another can work against you. Forgive and move on.
It’s only been by virtue of experience that I’ve gotten what I wanted: an innovative, respectful team with an amazing company poised to skyrocket. In my interview, I said, “I want to be seen as an intellectual equal, and still be treated as a lady.” And you know what? That is exactly what I got.
And I know the company I’m with is going to continue to succeed, precisely because of the awesome team we’re building, in which sexism doesn’t have any part.
Now, let’s put this garbage behind us and write some freaking awesome code.
Permalink: http://thecodergirl.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/do-you-wear-a-…man-programmer/
I agree.
Well put Cari.
Thanks, Tom.
And thanks for always challenging me as a developer, not because I was a woman in the field.
Would putting men’s underwear in the template be just as offensive? I don’t think a single guy would object to that. And cursing has nothing to do with sexism.
I think that any kind of product that objectifies a person is offensive. So yes, placing men’s underwear products in the base template would be offensive.
I disagree with you that cursing has nothing to do with sexism. The “f” word is a sexually derogatory term, esp. when used with “mother f***er,” etc. As is the word “b*tch.” While words like “sh*t” and “d*mn” are not sexist, swearing at all is just plain unprofessional, so why do it?
you should look up “sexism”.
So should you.
Hey!
I agree with ohhi but I’m unable to to respond to his comment so I’m responding here, sexism from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism
“Sexism is the belief that one sex is superior to the other.”
How is saying f*ck, mother f*cker or b*tch a sexist term? How are those terms expressing belief that one sex is superior to other?
Also you need to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherfucker
Especially this: “Due to the semiotics, it is not generally applied personally to females, a personal direct object referred to as such is invariably male.”
There are couple more things I would like to write:
“Don’t say things to your buddies or to women developers that you wouldn’t say to your mother. (FYI, asking whether or not your coworker is wearing a bra is inappropriate. “Frenching the Hooker” is not an acceptable work IM status. In general, do not mention any part of the female body, particularly if it begins with “b,” and refrain from all 8th grade humor. Don’t mention strip clubs, your on-line porn habit, or what you did last night. Never mention PMS. Etc.)”
Why can’t I mention “hand” and “head”? Those are parts of female body. Why can’t I talk about strip clubs or what I did last night? Those things are not sexist, they can be treated as unprofessional but some workplaces have different standards.
I’m pretty sure you are mixing sexism with work ethics and professionalism, but that is just my opinion. Also you can’t treat everything people do in work place as sexism, some peoples are dicks, some peoples are stupid and some would go to your boss or disregard your opinion even if you were a guy. Also being a woman doesn’t excuse from being bad at your work, if are shitty programmer/team leader/pm you have to accept and do not consider is sexist.
Look, it all depends on context. We can all use our imaginations to concoct situations in which a man can say something suggestive to a woman about any part of her body, so there’s no need to get specific here. In general, it’s best not to comment on the bodies of your female coworkers. This can go two ways though–women shouldn’t objectify men either. The key here is that objectification is a form of sexism (see your wiki article).
Regarding swearing, all things in moderation. A well placed expletive can be a good thing here and there, but gratuitous swearing contributes to the “brogrammer” atmosphere that is entrenched in sexism and sexist bullying.
If a woman is a horrible programmer, make your argument about her code, not about the fact that she is a woman. I’ll not defend horrible code no matter who writes it. But that’s not the issue here.
Recognize that you cannot be treated like a lady and retain the vocabulary and attitudes of feminism.
“Sexist” is a slur. It produces the same reaction as yours should you be called a whore in the middle of a code review.
Do not go running to HR like a little girl, invoking the special legal machinery of feminism to avenge your hurts. Use the icy contempt of a real woman. Sarcasm easily deflates a puffed ego.
Thicken your skin while you are at work. Men at work are sometimes crude and loud and they make threat displays. It is part of being male. Ignore it.
“Mz. Thatcher,” you directly contribute to sexism in the workplace by calling for people to “ignore” it, not take action against it, and by writing off the behavior as “part of being male.” You couldn’t argue more eloquently for sexism in the workplace than if you were a man who regularly engaged in it.
I have only one other comment to your post, in regard to your statement: “Recognize that you cannot be treated like a lady and retain the vocabulary and attitudes of feminism.”
Let me say it again: While I argue for the respectful and equal treatment of women in the workplace (and everywhere else), I do not espouse all the tenets of feminism, nor do I consider myself a feminist. I believe that movement, while its motives are laudable, has gone to the extreme on many issues. Eliminating gender lines should not be a goal, as that is not only impossible, but counterproductive. Rather, we should recognize our differences, appreciate them, and work together to build innovative workplace environments.
I agree with all except the cursing. Sometimes a well placed expletive is the shortest way to short-circuit ill thought plans or policies that come nicely wrapped in sterile and “professional” language.
Yes, there is something to be said for the classy, well-placed swear word. I’m talking here about gratuitous profanity that contributes to the “brogrammer” atmosphere.
My opinion about this, and i’ve seen this happen in quite a lot of work places, its not that offensive, development teams tends to be very realized, [its a piece of creative work :p ], guys between guys tend to let go like that, so why should there be any special rule just for woman to treat them any better?
I believe you are just making a scene because you believe “because you are a woman” special attention must be given to you.
I don’t want to be rude or anything, but this is something i noticed, here are certain limit of what is permissible or not, but in your case, i don’t think they are going off limit.
I wonder if you are a good enough programmer :p or just a coder, females tends to be really bad at this and then use sexism as excuse of their failures..
Maybe trying to blend in or simply making it VERY obvious to them that you don’t like this kind of attitude might just get em off your back. They wouldn’t do it if you tell em not to in a serious stern tone.
I always find posts such as these extraordinary, because I’ve never witnessed such behaviour.
I wonder if this is attributable to it being less prevalent in Australia? Unlikely I would think, as we’re not generally held up as paragons of virtue with respect to sexist behaviour.
If I consider how few female developers I have worked with over the years, I would say it (absence of this issue) is more like due to lack of opportunity. Which… is a whole other, but likely related issue.
I was with you until the list of don’ts. Here’s some of the ones I disagree with:
“If it’s rotten at the top, it’s rotten to the core, right down to the cubicle next to you.” Overly broad, you can’t judge the person next to you as sexist just because upper management is, each person is their own individual.
“Don’t dress like men. We aren’t men. We are ladies.” Why do you get to tell others how to dress, and what it means to be a woman? It is gender roles themselves that cause these issues, and you are perpetuating them.
“If another team member engages in sexism toward a female team mate, don’t stand for it. Be a man and stand up for her.” Look, I don’t disagree with you about standing up for others (regardless of their gender), but you have to realize that this statement is an oxymoron. YOU are imposing gender bias here. “Be a man”? Mindsets like this are what cause the problem in the first place.
“Don’t dress suggestively. This will make anyone, including other women, cease to respect you.” What constitutes suggestive? This is overly general, and implies slut-shaming.
“Don’t say the “F” word. In fact, don’t swear–it’s just plain unprofessional.” I literally never want to work at a place where people think this way. Profanity is irrelevant to my code quality and my work relationships. Based on other comments, it seems this is part of your reaction to a specific culture you’ve had to endure (“brogramming”), and isn’t generally applicable.
“Don’t take it. Realize that you are a human being worthy of respect, and that nothing should make you feel like less.” THIS is what you should be championing. We are all people, we all should be allowed to figure out who we are, and express ourselves without fear.
I respect your opinions and you have some good points. But keep in mind that while gender roles are an issue as far as stereotyping goes, I’m not out to eliminate gender. There’s a difference, but I have seen people — and been one of them — get confused about this fact. When women are afraid to be women among men and start consciously dressing or acting in a gender-neutral way, we lose part of who we are. I’m proud of the differences between men and women and think we should celebrate these instead of stamp them out in the name of “equality.” So my point in the do’s and don’ts section is to eliminate the lie that we must eliminate gender in order to achieve respect in the workplace.
The opposite happens when women try to fit into a predominantly male culture by wearing suggestive clothing–they try to assert their gender difference too forcefully and it ends up in the realm of the unprofessional. I’m not slut-shaming, but definitely won’t advocate unprofessionalism under any guise.
My point about having sexist management is that when you have something poisonous at the top, no matter how good the person is in the cubicle next to you, the poison seeps down into the organization. While the person in the next cubicle may be a good person, they are still affected by that poison and consciously or subconsciously, actively or passively, they will either join in the sexism or learn to do nothing when it comes from “on high.” The complacency is just as bad as the comments–maybe worse.
As for swearing–point taken. On further reflection it may not be a sexist issue at all. I for one do feel respected when the gentlemen with whom I work refrain from such talk because they respect not only me but each other. But it’s still unprofessional, and why be that?